How The Zenvo TSR-S Centripetal Wing Works - More Tire Grip
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The Zenvo TSR-S has a trick not many other supercars can match. The new aero package as a whole results in three times the downforce as the Zenvo TS1 GT, partly from the massive rear wing. The so-called 'Centripetal Wing' can not only pivot to change the angle the wing faces the wing, but also the tilt from side to side of the car. As the car goes around a corner, the inside of the car sees the wing lift up, decreasing load transfer to the outside wheel.
By keeping the loading on the inside wheel higher during cornering situations, the Centripetal Wing increases lateral grip, with little sacrifice in overall downforce. The benefits don't stop there. With a high pivot point, the wing acts like an aerodynamic anti-roll bar, preventing excessive body roll. And since it tilts front/back as well, it can act as an air brake, increase downforce, or minimize drag.
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Hello all! If you enjoyed this video you may be interested in learning about a similar technology Lamborghini uses in the Huracán Performante, which lead to numerous lap records, called ALA: https://youtu.be/FG2lWRAW-aU
Hello Jason. I sent you a message in Facebook so we can see what do you thing about friction testing oils. What can we learn from that? Just check on Facebook messages cause someone already made hundreds of tests on many, many brands, viscosity and temperatures.
Blanchy10 My guess is that there are regulations that keep the car within certain guidelines: weight, overall dimensions, engine displacement, tire diameter, etc . The further back they can put the wing (relatively), the more downforce they can put into the front wing to equalize the forces to allow you to steer “safely”. My guess is that the front and back wing act together across the long lever arm of the car, while also considering the other restrictions, to give you the most downforce on the rear tires.
Nice video, i think there is also another factor to that. That part of the wing that moves faster, produces quadratically more lift force, comparing to the part of the wing that moves slower (turning creates that condition). In other words, outside part of the wind will produce more force, because it moves faster in relation to the airstream, than the inside part of the wing, because the former moves along a bigger radius.
Just read an interesting article explaining why this wing would make the car handle worse, if it works at all. It's over at RoadAndTrack and I think it makes quite a few good points - increasing rear DF on one wheel would increase understeer at the worst possible moment due to diagonal weight transfer to the wheel doing the turning etc...
What happens with the diagonal forces ?
Wouldn't this wing just cause understeer ?
If when going through a Right hand turn the "Wing" produces more downforce on the right-rear tire, that in effect just take weight off the left-front tire , which is the main tire responsible for turning , meaning less grip and more understeer .... Basically making the car less stable and resulting in slower turns because of less grip.
It seems to me that having the fulcrum of the wing at the center of the car at all times hurts this system more than anything. What may be better is to have two different, independently-articulating wings side-by-side, one mounted 1/4th of the way from the left side and the other mounted 1/4th of the way from the right side. This would allow left vs right customizable downforce in all situations.
There's so many mistake, if you are logically capable you must know that the wing sistem is completely wrong. Even "centripetal" dosen't match, centripetal force is that what make you fall inside the corner when you ride a bike, what does it match with this features?
The efficiency end the force generated of the wing can decrease substantially when it is lowered closer to the bodywork (lower moment arm v.s. rear wheel axis, loss of aero efficiency due reduction of clean air flow due to closer bodywork proximity, etc), so I am curious how a 3% loss is arrived at.
There are many variables to consider, like corner entry/mid/exit, that place ever-changing demands on the car throughout its corner traction envelope. Simply adding grip in the corner to the rear, can have a significant negative impact on the front end overall grip and overall car balance( under/oversteer issue). As this wing also acts as an active anti-roll bar as well as active aero device, what is happening with the front end aero/suspension/roll bar to compensate?
None the less, I appreciate the thinking outside of the box approach. Would like to see more data, so as not take this as a simple marketing ploy by Zenovo.
It would be interesting to compare lap times with a standard wing and the centripetal wing, all other factors being equal, for real world confirmation the centripetal wing works better better than the standard wing.. Inquiring minds want to know.
Hi @Engineering Explained
It's that a mistake or i'm wrong one or another =) ... in the top right drawing the compensation it's due to the wing so, the blue arrow (wing forces) should be bigger and the red arrow (weight forces) should be the same size as the drawing in the top middle... Am I right?
Not convinced by this - they would need to have an equivalent system on the front too (they have have this covered already but it's not covered in the vid?). Otherwise they will be upsetting the front/rear load in tyres, it's important to have the load as you want it on all 4 tyres and not just the rears.
In my opinion it resembles (in a weird way) rear steering as it applies torque/turning forces to the rear of the vehicle (mostly) and I thing that this could make the car a bit unstable. Just like rear steering where the rear wheels turn in the same direction as the front, the Corresponding wing forces are for high speed cornering adding stability. But at low speed it should be the opposite like the rear wheels turning the other way to make the car more agile, though the wing doesn't provide as much Downforce at lower speeds. Plus the turning center of the torque applied to the car is completely different to the turning center of the car ==> instability. Again in my opinion zenvo should go with both this wing and rear steering (or at least rear wheel torque vectoring) not only to counteract the negative effects of this system but to complement it's function and enhance it rendering any instabilities null!! I would love to hear your opinion on this matter, maybe a follow up video, maybe your own ideas for a better system (although I'm not hoping for much :p). Great job as always and keep up like this, your work is perfect!!
wonder what's the minimum speed that wing will generate a usable amount of downforce - if it is like 30 mph+ then they are onto something cool and functional. but if the whole system needs to be doing 100mph+ for any significant downforce, then it's more show off than actually making a difference. anyone got any stats on that wing?
When I was about 9, I seriously didn't understand why cars don't use wings to assist steering the way airplanes do. I knew nothing about downforce then, but I knew that airplanes pull more G's in corners. This is the closest I have seen to that naive idea.
Let's face it though, it's ugly as hell. Prone to failure in moving parts, ugly as hell, and will probably catch fire. If this was really such a great idea, Ferrari would have done it a long time ago. I seriously doubt the benefits of this wing too over something like ALA as this seems much more a gimmick considering no other manufacturer has done such a thing because it probably doesn't work to any noticeable effect and Zenvo will go bust without a gimmick from all the negative attention they've gained through fires.
shouldn't the orange orange arrow on third drawing be the same as on the second and only blue arrow representing downforce vector become longer?
also i wonder how much time they spent on designing the shape of that wing.
If memory serves me, Hall got a patent on the use of a wing to create down force. The slippery slope is not knowing the whole story. As a retired ME I have enjoyed your analysis on all of your topics. Keep it up.
I think that's a bit of a slippery slope when providing credit, as there's always someone before them who also worked on a similar idea (ex: the wright brothers, but they didn't invent the wing, etc etc).
I feel the took inspiration from dirt sprint cars they have a fixed wing the oval has an angle and the track is only goes left. They just implemented a center pivot so that the wing opposes the turning angle on the car and aides with traction/weight transfer. The changes in wing height side to side trick the rear tires into driving as if the car were on flat ground
This is all very interesting. I've had this sort of an idea of how wings should work since I was a kid but never thought someone would actually do it.
Interestingly enough I wonder if it's possible and maybe you could do a video of what perhaps would happen if they took the ALA system from Lamborghini and channeled air normally whilst removing those shocks or whatever they are that are adding weight on the back and adding the same with only with certain angle at which the wing can't move anymore (simplest solution i can think of is an angle cut bar with some rubber band on it when it hits that angle to stop it going further.) I think it'd be doable and much more efficient, cost savy and weight saving aswell.
What do you think?
Makes sense. Aircraft bank into turns as the horizontal component of lift pushed to the outside of the turn. This causes the plane to turn. On the car the wing produces negative lift so for the horizontal component of lift vector to be pointed in the correct direction it needs to bank away from the turn.
but your overall downforce, and so your overall normal force on both tires, remain mostly unchanged? so mostly you're just decreasing load sensitivity on the outside tire, not really increasing traction that much. The active stabilization of canceling out the rotational acceleration is neat though
I'd rather have a fairly conventionalwing with small deployable small wings (or gurney flaps) tucked under the main wing. Same function, no downforce sacrificed while doing the same job. The wing mount itself is causing a lot of drag (Or even stalling). Though the design is an absolute oddball, still appreciate what the Danes in Zenvo were thinking. Cool factor is high though.
Because it doesnt lock left and right suspension together it should be better than a typical ARB. Also it defeats the need for expensive heavy torque vectoring differentials because the load on the tires is more equal. What a brilliant idea.
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