TYT's Mark Thompson spoke with Bill Schneider, author of Standoff: How America Became Ungovernable.
You can buy Bill's book here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078M5FJB8/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
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Well Mark, no reply to what I said about the 2nd amendment, or anything from any of my fellow liberals either, this is actually getting old. This is why I have little faith in the progressive movement making any progress against fascism. Common sense, reason, and history have been thrown out the window for diatribe or stupidity. This sort of fake liberalism or progressiveness is why Calif is going down the toilet,...and my native state, and I am a 7th generation Californio, is being ruined.
Pretending that America is "ungovernable except in times of crisis" might qualify as a good effort at some sort of 'self-fulling prophecy' propaganda, but other than that, is just a weird, unsupported assertion.
Either that, or we're doomed. A sane society can't possibly surrender its governability in times of peaceful stasis lacking crises, or that society loses any claim to sanity, and is doomed to fail.
The worst income inequality since the gilded age, with people living in tent cities, falling thru what once were safety nets that have been destroyed in the past 40 years isn't a crisis? Millions with no healthcare that cannot afford a $400 emergency, crisis?
Not just America, human civilization is ungovernable & is on its way out. We’re done as a species, the planet is going to kill us off, & we’ve earned it. What happens between then & now is just language trying to reason how we failed.
Got the gun debate wrong in 2 ways. First it's a constitutional issue if you give the criminals in government one inch to infringe on any of a persons liberties they will take a mile like they have after they infringed your right to machine guns and explosive now they have infringed on all people's rights to a fair hearing to privacy to protest all of these infringements started and have gotten worse after that infringement on people's second amendment. Secondly are you really not afraid of tyrannizing someone if you know that all the people have guns and may sack up and stand against you? I know you two cowards come at this particular stance from a position of weakness so of course you think this way. The take my liberty away for security stance has been proven time and time again to be a loser strategy.
That's just not true. What people usually means is that they want an efficient government that runs down to cost. The problem is they don't realize businesses focus on profits, whereas government focuses on service. While few would agree that you shouldn't save a life if it costs say $100, a business would simply pocket the $100 and say it's not their responsibility. When government runs purely like a business, we all get screwed, with only the owners profiting. Spoiler: we're not the real owners.
A lot of good points, but the big glaring thing he failed to mention was racism. The societal division that began in the 1960s, and is reaching its apex now, has revolved around the changing social hierarchy of America, a hierarchy based primely on race (with gender roles thrown in for good measure). One half of the country is kicking and screaming to stop social change from happening, and they’re taking their frustration out on our politics. I don’t know what the future holds, but one side is gonna win out in the end; and I fear the right may have already decided that the only way they can win is with autocratic fascism.
"Officially we have two parties which are in fact wings of a common party of property with two right wings. Corporate wealth finances each. Since the property party controls every aspect of media they have had decades to create a false reality for a citizenry largely uneducated by public schools that teach conformity with an occasional advanced degree in consumerism.”
― Gore Vidal
That was a great program and interview Mark, thanks for having that guest on the show. He did get one thing wrong, a minor point, in 1607 no Puritans were in N. America that I know of, that is the year the Jamestowne colony was set up in Virginia, a Royal sanctioned, Church of England operation. In 1620 some dissenters came over, the Pilgrims who were a bit different from the Puritans who would follow and set up a colony based on their freedom to practice their religion to the exclusion of others. But liberalism was blowing in the wind, even in the Puritan theocracy, and one of them, Rodger Williams, would initiate the first experiment in total religious liberty in Rhode Island, land a thankful native tribe gave him.
Now if you don't mind, I would like to pick one bone with you, one I have had to do before with fellow liberals and progressives. By the way I consider myself an FDR Democrat and liberal of the Age of Reason, the ideals that were the foundation of our American Republic. Unfortunately most liberals and progressives have no schooling in that period, or the ideas of the Founding Fathers.
Concerning the 2nd amendment, it is included in the Bill of Rights for a good reason, and the reasons most give for not thinking it relative are well reflected by your statement on it in the course of the program. Also your idea that the armed citizen concept of being a check on tyranny in government is really flawed I am afraid. Let's talk about this just from a military point of view, we have the most powerful military in the world...so how well did that work out in Viet Nam? Or in the Middle East or Afghanistan? We could mention other armed insurgencies in history, even our own revolution where we took on the most powerful army and navy in the world. How did that work out for Great Britain and King George?
Not to mention now that the idea of the 2nd amendment is not that one individual with a gun can resist a tyrannical government, but rather the whole body of citizens who are armed with the weapons of war,
“The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
~Joseph Story [born Sept. 18, 1779, Marblehead, Mass., U.S.—died Sept. 10, 1845, Cambridge, Mass, associate justice of the United States Supreme Court (1811–45), who joined Chief Justice John Marshall in giving juristic support to the development of American nationalism. While also teaching law at Harvard (1829–45), he delivered lectures that he elaborated into a monumental series of nine legal commentaries, some of which had international influence.]
The liberal cause today takes it's talking [points from the corporate media monopoly, talking points purposely designed to make us look like idiots or ignorant. The reason the NRA and the corporate fascists do not want any sort of gun control is to keep the chaos going, just as chaos in health care, the economy, and other other areas of the public life creates an atmosphere friendly to destroying our democratic institutions. Look at Germany in the 1920s.
Until we start showing some sense and knowledge of this issue, there can be no sensible discussion about addressing gun violence. I think the Swiss have an almost perfect system, but no one seems willing to take up that conversation, especially our corporate media or the right. And why, because it would involve getting rid of a standing army, which would gut the military industrial complex, bring about reform in universal health care, social safety nets, and free education, etc.
Solving the gun violence problem is a lot more complicated then just some quick fix idea of disarming the populace or repealing the 2nd amendment, and once you start repealing any right under the Bill of Rights, you will unleash chaos on the country.
I have shared these thoughts with a lot of fellow liberals and the reactions I get? The same as when I take on the confederate lovers...silence and no discussion once the facts are laid out. This is a sign of the intellectual dishonesty or unwillingness to think outside of the media box or matrix created for us. I do hope you are not of that sort.
“[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
"A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace."
da hell is he talking about? They agree on everything. unfettered capitalism with maximum wealth redistribution to the 1/10 of 1%. Products and services do not have to provide value to people (health insurance, Facebook, oil, etc...) monopolies are fine. Full time workers making 1/2 a living wage is okay but taxes on the wealthy are unacceptable. We poor public money into wars, CIA, state department w/ no accountability to expand markets and plunder so the 1/10 of 1% can make even more money in places like North Korea, Iran, Venezuela, and Nicaragua. What is he talking about division? Dems and Republicans agree on almost everything.
I know right. bill Schneider is an establishment commentator for the last 20 years on cnn. Typical. what DIVISION is there between "left and right" in our govt. what a joke. there is partisan bickering but they all agree that we should be a nation at permanent war with no health care
Ungovernable? Hardly. It seems we are completely governed- removed form both policies and actions undertaken by the government. The so-called "stand-off's" are of little to no consequence. Run away military budget, ongoing unwinnable preemptive wars, increasing austerity for the poorest among us- we have no power over any of that.
We are governed, in all the ways that matter to the Elites.
This article entitled "The Chomsky Challenge for Americans" which came out today, is truly one of the most amazing and important articles I've read in the last 10 years. It is perfection given the geopolitical rhetoric being bickered and bandied about over internet and airwaves. From start to finish, I highly recommend reading it.
The division will never disappear . It's well past time to split this country up. Let the right wing religious kooks have their own country. They can live in their libertarian paradise with no rule of law, no rules, no regulations, and they can live in their ridiculous white straight godly paradise. And the rest of the sane world can get on with life and have a happy healthy country.
Climate change, and national debt will never be considered a crisis in America. Both require at least some basic education in either mathematics or science. Look how many people still support Trump. There are far too few people in America who know what the hell is going on.
Neither issue will matter anyway, as our government no longer works for it's people. You can cover what should be a true crises on every news channel for as long as you want. The government isn't going to do a damned thing about it if there's money in it to ignore the issue. On a federal level, this government is simply too corrupt to fix.
The "national debt" is dollar for dollar the non-government sectors financial wealth. It is an accounting identity of which most Americans are kept intentionally ignorant.
Progressives: learn MMT or fail. Progressive neoliberals are oxymoronic in their economic thinking.
Didn’t watch the vid but the answer is YES and it’s because we’re too large a country with too much difference in what’s needed from nat gov state to state. The perfect scenario would be for each state to adopt a higher gov in place of nat gov and for states to work together for things the founding fathers meant for it to do highways and allies in war and trade partners ykno
It is a negative thought to think that our government is ungovernable? People in power would like you to think that it is ungovernable so they may continue to abuse the middle (if any) and poor people too. Ungovernable is the scapegoat excuse.
Yes, keep making substantive criticisms without watching the video.
I don't agree with everything the guy is saying, but he's definitely not saying what you imagine he is.
I'm goddamned tired of people who think being idiots is a left-wing virtue, then declaring themselves the ultimate leftists, justifying their constant spiteful snark.
Dude, get a life. Stop commenting on videos if you don't want to bother watching them. Leave the rest of us alone.
Who's more corrupt in Congress between the Republicans and the Democrats?
“When comparing criminal indictments of those serving in the executive branch of presidential administrations it's so lopsided as to be ridiculous. Yet all I ever hear is how corrupt the Democrats are. So why don't we break it down by president and the numbers.
Obama (D) - 8yrs in office. zero criminal indictments, zero convictions and zero prison sentences. so the next time somebody describes the Obama administration as "scandal free" they aren't speaking wishfully, they're simply telling the truth.
Bush, George W. (R) - 8yrs in office. 16 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 9 prison sentences.
Clinton (D) - 8yrs in office. 2 criminal indictments. one conviction. one prison sentence. that's right nearly 8yrs of investigations. tens of millions spent and 30yrs of claiming them the most corrupt ever and there was exactly one person convicted of a crime.
Bush, George H. W. (R) - 4yrs in office. one indictment. one conviction. one prison sentence.
Reagan (R) - 8yrs in office. 26 criminal indictments. 16 convictions. 8 prison sentences.
Carter (D) - 4yrs in office. one indictment. zero convictions and zero prison sentences.
Ford (R) - 2 1/2 yrs in office. one indictment and one conviction. one prison sentence. Pardoned Richard Nixon.
Nixon (R) - 6yrs in office. 76 criminal indictments. 55 convictions. 15 prison sentences.
Johnson (D) - 5yrs in office. zero indictments. zero convictions. zero prison sentences.
So, let’s see where that leaves us. in the last 53 years Democrats have been in office for 25 of those years while Republicans held it for 28. in their 25yrs in office Democrats had a total of three executive branch officials indicted with one conviction and one prison sentence. that's one whole executive branch official convicted of a crime in two and a half decades of Democrat leadership.
In the 28yrs that Republicans have held office over the last 53yrs they have had a total of(a drum roll would be more than appropriate), 120 criminal indictments of executive branch officials. 89 criminal convictions and 34 prison sentences handed down. That's more prison sentences than years in office since 1968 for Republicans. If you want to count articles of impeachment as indictments (they aren't really but we can count them as an action), both sides get one more. However, Clinton wasn't found guilty while Nixon resigned and was pardoned by Ford. so those only serve to make Republicans look even worse.
With everything going on with Trump and his people right now, it's a safe bet Republicans are gonna be padding their numbers a bit real soon. So let's just go over the numbers one more time shall we. 120 indictments for Republicans. 89 convictions and 34 prison sentences. Those aren't "feelings" or "alternate facts" those are simply the stats by the numbers. Republicans are, and have been for my entire lifetime, the most criminally corrupt party to hold the office of the presidency.”
the blue dogs aren't gutless, they're just bought. they give chuck Schumer an excuse when the dems quietly vote with trump on everything. Schumer is paid off to let the blue dogs vote that way because he's on the same team as trump at the end of the day
U dont think the both seem dense?..,,we cant figure out why americans dont care about global warming which has killed btn 100,000 and a million dark skined impoverished people people in 2017 so we will talk about the rich kids that got shot for 20 minutes instead.
Maybe its because they along with their audiance are rightwing shits who only differ from republicans on gun control
America has been trying to speak out of both sides of its mouth since its inception. This country has one problem and one problem alone: racism. Until that and the people and traffic in it are punished with jail time, nothing will change (and that's being generous in believing that the majority of white people want that change to begin with.) You can't even convict a cop for killing a child so long as that child is black.
u need to work on your racism then S....Its kind of ridiculous for an african american and a person with a latino last name to talk about racism being a problem Though..
I know as a white boy i am not supposed to have an opinion and that im not allowed to see that as derogatory or anything but what i am allowed to do doesnt change what it is
actually i am of the opinion it does, as a small Republic u are agile able to respond quickly to the circumstances and public mood, as it gets bigger the demographics change and more differences of opinion creep in eventually these differing opinions drive the republic to a halt, which in turn creates a rift between these differing factions and there supporters. this in turn leads to a greater polarization of the populace.
The problem with America is that the South were never punished for the Civil War. When Lincoln was killed, president Johnson sabotaged everything and allowed Jim Crow and pulled US troops out of the South.
Some good points but again, a bit simplistic about the war. The south was a monstrous piece of feudalism within the United States, and started a war they could not finish! Read some of the quotes by the confederates, these were horrible people and Lincoln in the end got generals who would wage total war, destroying the south's ability to wage war, a war they yelped for and started. When they lost they yelped some more, or more liked whined about northern atrocities. Yeah, OK. enough said here, go read some real history. I'm tired of all of this BS about the confederacy. Yes, by the way, Sheridan went on to be a horrible war criminal, and by then the racists were in charge anyway and we were on our way to our "manifest destiny" a theme and doctrine supported wholeheartedly by the south from its inception.
The South was punished during the war, Gen. Philip Sheridan had a scorched-earth policy. He stated he would make southern civilians regret supporting the Confederacy. To this day southerns hold it against Northerns/ government for those war Crimes. Lincoln even Praise Sheridan and Sherman for the burnings. Lincoln did not fight the civil war to end slavery, he fought it to keep the country together. Who is Sheridan? The mad man who rehired Custer to fight the American Indian wars. "The only Good Indian is a Dead Indian". Sheridan ordered to kill all the Buffalos to starve the Indians. 4 million Buffalos were killed, their carcasses rotting in the Sun. He also had his hand in killing civilians in the Philippines. How do I know this? An American Indian told me this 45yrs ago, when a group came to Ft. Sheridan protesting fair teatment. It was funny, all the rich Do Gooders where there giving food and blankets, patting themselves on the back for How Wonderful they were. Only a few poor kids who could actually relate, Talked with them and learned from them. Today this fort has turned into a high end housing project. The pompous rich people talk and give tours where Gen. Sheridan kept his horse. WTF
They get pissed if anyone uses the Sheridan name. Really twisted to be protective of a Murderer's name. Only in America!
Punishing the loser in a War gives raise to generational vendettas. We just created ISIS.
A think some history lessons are needed here, yes, Lockjaw's last statement on pulling out USA troops from the occupation of the south [re-construction] which allowed Jim Crow laws to come about, its a simplistic view, but in what is said totally true, just lacking in detail.
I see the usual answers and replies to this are still circulating around, and I have commented on other sites until I was out of breath about the Civil War, its causes, and what happened afterwards. And I will make this clear from the get go, yes, it was about slavery, or more so, a deep religious belief in racism, and although the south lost the military war, by 1880 it had gained a great victory that would continue until the 1960s when the civil rights movement swept away a lot of what was gained by the south in suppressing their former slave class.
The battle continues today, although it is now equal opportunity voter suppression of anyone who disagrees ewith the modern "plantocracy" or slaver class in corporate America, the same ones who go overseas looking for new plantations with cheap labor. By the way, the big corporate, business class in the north, called the "cotton whigs" were traitors who supported the southern slave interests and would continue to this day doing so.
As for statements like "...The south was punished economically for decades and still today shows the signs of that economic punishment which bred deep-seeded resentment, discontent and poverty both economically and of intelligence..." are without a shred of evidence, just the big lie generated in the south after the war to justify themselves. After gaining back control over their own states by 1880 [in a deal made with the Republican Party, Lincoln would have been appalled, even the Republican candidate for president was,] the old order was reinstated, Jim Crow made the law of the land, and a great movement to build these glorious monuments to the Confederate leadership with a whole new narrative on what the war was all about, state's rights, liberty, economic justice and so forth. Southern kids were indoctrinated with a hatred for the Yankee meddling in their affairs, support of negro emancipation and rights, and for oppressing the south, etc. Actually the feudal order was reinstated by 1880 and the elite put back in charge who hated public education and loved an ignorant, poor white trash population who they could control, and as LBJ put it,
"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
-Lyndon B. Johnson
The reason the south was an economic mess was because of it's ruling class! And because of this, later on northern industries moved south to take advantage of the subservient lower class whites and oppressed Negroes, and NO unions, ehhhaa! In the mean time even the Republicans as far back as the late 1800s were telling the great lie about the origins of the war and pushing for national unity and by the Spanish American War this was accomplished as we became a colonial power and institutionalized racism. By the 1920s the southern attitudes and racism, including the former terrorist group the KKK were considered a normal part of American life all over the country. One old marine I knew [WW1 and 2 vet] told me about how back in the 20s after the war how when he signed up to work in a northern factory, he was handed his union membership papers with one hand and in the other his membership papers for the Klan!!
The south was our third world country within the United States, and now the rest of the nation is following along. Lincoln put it well in these speeches,
"The shepherd drives the wolf from the sheep’s throat, for which the sheep thanks the shepherd as a liberator, while the wolf denounces him for the same act as the destroyer of liberty, especially as the sheep was a black one. Plainly the sheep and the wolf are not agreed upon a definition of the word liberty; and precisely the same difference prevails to-day among us human creatures, even in the North, and all professing to love liberty. Hence we behold the processes by which thousands are daily passing from under the yoke of bondage, hailed by some as the advance of liberty, and bewailed by others as the destruction of all liberty. Recently, as it seems, the people of Maryland have been doing something to define liberty; and thanks to them that, in what they have done, the wolf’s dictionary, has been repudiated.”
~ Abraham Lincoln, from address at a Sanitary Fair, Baltimore, MD April 18, 1864
“That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time, and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, "You toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it." No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle.”
~Abraham Lincoln, October 15, 1858 debate at Alton, Illinois
I have had to enter into a lot of discussions on the issues of the Civil War and the southern cause too many times with defenders of the confederacy. The results are always the same....silence afterwards because those who defend the Confederacy do have a single historical fact to back them! So if you want, bring it on, be my guest, glad to go over all of this again in the interests of clearing the air and getting down to the real issues that confront us.
“There was a land of Cavaliers and Cotton Fields called the Old South. Here in this pretty world, Gallantry took its last bow. Here was the last ever to be seen of Knights and their Ladies Fair, of Master and of Slave. Look for it only in books, for it is no more than a dream remembered, a Civilization gone with the wind.”
~Prologue – Gone With The Wind
“Everyone should do all in his power to collect and disseminate the truth, in the hope that it may find a place in history and descend to posterity. History is not the relation of campaigns and battles and generals or other individuals, but that which shows the principles for which the South contended and which justified her struggle for those principles. ” ~Robert E. Lee
..and the ugly truth,
“...A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction. This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.”
~Taken from the South Carolina Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union
"Democratic liberty exists solely because we have slaves . . . freedom is not possible without slavery."
~Richmond Enquirer, 1856
"We regard every man in our midst an enemy to the institutions of the South, who does not boldly declare that he believes African slavery to be a social, moral, and political blessing."
~Atlanta Confederacy, 1860
"Its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery . . . is his natural and normal condition."
~Alexander Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy, referring to the Confederate government [Augusta, Georgia, Daily Constitutionalist, March 30, 1861.]
"…the moment this House undertakes to legislate upon this subject [slavery], it dissolves the Union. Should it be my fortune to have a seat upon this floor, I will abandon it the instant the first decisive step is taken looking towards legislation of this subject. I will go home to preach, and if I can, practice, disunion, and civil war, if needs be. A revolution must ensue, and this republic sink in blood."
~ James H. Hammond, Congressman from South Carolina
A final note, Jeff Davis got it right here, and it continues,
“…the contest is not over, the strife is not ended. It has only entered upon a new and enlarged arena.”
~President Jefferson Davis, C.S.A., address to the Mississippi legislature in 1881.
Say what you want, but the truth of history is obvious.
Lots of states have very bad voter suppression right now.. and not just in the south.. but in any state which has a large minority, youth or elderly population.. I just hope those laws become reversed with new congress, senate and WH... and of course laws that take money out of politics.. something gotta give.. And I still have faith in TX... ya'll are strong-willed people.. :) My galpal was from Texas.. she fought stage 4 cancer for 11 long years... never gave up..
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