The Crap News Network strikes again. How 'bout waiting for the full NTSB Report before you armchair quarterback the pilots on an aircraft with a blown engine, casualties in the rear, bad weather, cock-pit indicators going haywire.
Fake ! Fake news! How is it possible in this day and age that there is no video of this supposed incident? All there is here is a blur of something. Intentional chaos ,lies and the lying liars telling them!
Southwest is shit when it comes to training their pilots. It was 100% pilot error. They're the most reckless, unsafe, and misinformed pilots in the airline industry. They make countless, simple errors all the time. The only thing I can think of, besides the fact that a 15 year old student pilot knows better to flare and touchdown with the mains, is that one of the idiots extended the last notch of flaps at the last minute, causing the nose to pitch forward. Either way, I hope they got their licenses revoked.
Dana Steele Would you wanna go up in a plane that had once been in a crash landing? Even a minor one? There's to many factors that are now being put into play after an accident such as this. All it takes is one stress fracture in the wrong area to have catastrophic consequences. And those are extremely hard to find. So essentially you would have to do a total overhaul on the whole plane. Which is likely more expensive than the plane is worth. Hence the write off. Not to mention that if there was another crash after it gets put back into service then suddenly the lawsuits are double what they normally would be.
If you watch the video from inside the airplane (passenger view) they flew it onto the runway plain and simple. Poor approach will equal a bad landing most of the time if not worse and is why you simply bag it and go around. There can be many human factors that lead to this just don't make it worse by continuing a non stabilized approach. Fatigue, impatience, low fuel, ego, in a hurry to get home, poor CRM can all lead to poor judgement. My father and I have done a lot of GA flying over the years and have had some clunkers. Ran our 1955 C310 off the end of the runway one time back in the 70's. On a 2000 foot grass strip coming back from Vegas Dad didn't realize it had rained hard 30 min prior to touchdown and hydroplaned off the end. Never did that again.
So here is the real reason for this incident directly from the NTSB report:
"The captain was also provided refresher crew resource management (CRM) training in February 2010 as a result of complaints received by the chief pilot from first officers who had flown with her."
This is why I don't watch CNN. He didn't land nose gear first. The nose gear gave out when the pilot brought the nose down. Then she goes on to question the angle of the flaps which were correct. CNN has become even more worthless since then.
Really!!!.....like we need to be told the main gear should touchdown before the nose-wheel. I guess we couldn't figure that out on our own! The media is so stupid when reporting aviation stories. Most of the time they dont know what they are looking at or talking about.
The captain and FO were fighting over weather or not to go around because they were too fast on approach but the captian was in a hurry and wanted to land so the two started arguing and forgot to land the airplane. My mom was the southwest attorney that was assigned to the case.
Actually that is incorrect. Flaps 30 is the typical landing configuration for the 737. Flaps 40 is for short runways, etc. (I've sat in the cockpit jumpseat on Southwest flights and discussed this with the pilots) (No, not the one behind the captain ;)). It's not the time before touchdown that matters. It's HAT (Height Above Touchdown). Most airlines, including my own, require that the airplane be in it's final configuration by 1000' HAT. Part of the stabilized approach concept. If you read the NTSB report the captain was apparently not happy with how the first officer was conducting the approach so she took the controls at 200' HAT, then, for reasons beyond my comprehension, pitched the airplane nose down on to the runway to force it to touch down. A student pilot on a solo flight knows better than to do that, much less a pilot with 12,000 hours of flight experience.
According to the NTSB report, flaps went to 40 only at 500' before TDZE after the captain noticed the profile didn't look quite right. SOP for SW requires fully stabilized approach at 1000', else go around. The report is worth taking a look over, as it's pretty interesting to see what seemingly small things went on in the cockpit to cause a $15M mess up: https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief2.aspx?ev_id=20130723X13256&ntsbno=DCA13FA131&akey=1
Fuck this newscaster, "these are the basics of landing" "it's the first thing you learn" - no shit sherlock, the pilots know this. They've only been trained to make landings over hundreds of hours. There's tons of factors as to why this could have happened. In short, fuck CNN and everyone associated with it with their sensationalized bullshit.
Looks to me like the landing gear failed. I feel fairly certain that the main's touched down first. And they are blaming it on the pilot. Also I had heard the pilot may have been a women, there are other videos of southwest pilots displaying sexism. Judging by southwest's methods of handling it, that is shoveling it under a rug, I would not be surprised if it is rampid in aviation. But reguardless of that. I looked at several videos and it seems it is possible to work out exactly the pitch of the aircraft and thus determine if nose gear had in fact touched down first. But to me it looks like it hadn't.
+Southwest Airlines what about the co-pilot angrily releasing control of the aircraft, possibly shoving the yoke forward? Or in any case not taking caution in transfering control. I argue that because the transition in control it was both pilot's faults or at least the co-pilot is responsible as well.
+marshalcraft yes but It was the pilots fault because the nose gear touched down first instead of the main gear. The pilot forced the nose down first. It was most certainly not mechanical failure. By the way I fly for southwest.
@TheStockDok yep, they have flaps 40. That's full flaps on the 737NGs. If there's some tail wind or a short runway, then 40 can be used with advantage. 30 is probably the most common setting for normal landings around the world.
I've read a few online forums frequented by pilots about this crash and they noted the Captain was fired by SWA afterwards. She took control of the plane away from the FO seconds before touchdown and is heard on the CVR telling the FO "here let me show you how it should be done". Taking over control right before touchdown is a big no no.
I would rather get the news of this from TMZ than CNN or Foxnews. Those two would milk every ounce of possible tragedy, errors, 737 schematics, landing gear experts, runway experts, meteorologists, and on and on until no one any longer gave a shit. Or 5 minutes later, in other words.
yeah I was wondering, on the footage shot from inside the plane during the landing, it didn't look like the pilot flared for landing as usual. It looked more like the plane swooped towards the ground nose first, you could see the descent rate seemed to be increasing just before the landing, where it would normally be decreasing. It looked like the pilot was desperately trying to get the plane on the ground to avoid a go-around.
+alan jackson Not necessarily, the airline must evaluate the pilots skill and knowledge of the aircraft, instruments and FAA policies or if they fly to international locations they must understand the countries regulations, its just how the law works.
+Nikola16789 ILS (instruments) is normally used for landing with reduced visibility due to fog and there are different ILS categories based on how far visibility is in metres. ILS can be fully automated to land the plane. The southwest pilots probably intercept a glide slope becon and keep the plane on auto pilot until just before landing.
+Kpoole35™ That's a stupid policy. Pilot should have control prior to the reaching 500fts minimums unless conditions dictate a full ILS approach. That's how your pilots de-skill and lose the feel of the aircraft in changeable weather conditions. Good job I'm not American... Don't think I'd fly SW
I really hate these armchair quarterbacks and the "experts" who feed them more incendiary speculative fuel with their comments. The flight recorders and crew interviews haven't even been collected yet, much less reviewed. This is why the FAA and NTSB take so long to investigate Everything.
I have flown on many commercial jets in my time, and I know at Southwest they do have some pilots that handle aircraft very rough on landings. Thank goodness most SW pilots are very good at landing their aircraft.
The first officer didn't like how the approach was going at 500 feet; the Captain took over and forced the issue - too high, too fast, unstable, short runway. She should have abandoned the approach and gone around. The culture at Southwest frowns on this action - going around - or at least it used to. I believe she lost her job, however. I heard the first officer sarcastically said to her after the airplane got stopped: "Nice job, Captain." Don't know if that's true or not.
I'm assuming the NTSB determined the cause of this accident and most of the comments below are based on their report and are entirely irrelevant or the contributor is demonstrating that the NTSB is a waste of money!
reply to paperconcepts; The American Airlines pilot was in the flight deck jumpseat commuting to or from work. This flight deck jumpseat is located directly above the the nose landing gear strut, during impact the strut was compressed into the pilots jumpseat braking his back.
An American Airlines pilot was injured pretty bad in this. He said that the female captain was a severe bitch, had a long history of complaints from pilots, and thought she was something else. The NTSB is building a case against the female captain. She was from CA and had only flown into NYC twice in her lifetime. Way to go SouthWorst!
Also reported by NTSB:
"SWA 345 proceeded on the approach when at a point below 400 feet, there was an exchange of control of the airplane and the captain became the flying pilot and made the landing."
Flaps full at 56 seconds out is acceptable in the right conditions. They take about 6-7 seconds to configure, add another 15-20 for the pitch adjustment and there is still plenty of time to position and flare for touchdown. The GPWS callouts should have given them all the notice they needed......unless the alt was incorrectly set ?
If the statement/rumor with the flap change from 30 to 40 degrees seconds before the incident turns out true, then it makes sense that it was "driven to the runway" Flap configuration changes, at any speed, causes the nose to pitch down, and also causes a drop in speed (due to extra drag) but not knowing facts about the aircraft speed, attitude, and altitude, it's just speculation based on first hand knowledge and experience on type.
Only if you increase flaps do you slow down or maybe drop the nose if you don't compensate while the flaps go down.Standard procedure to increase if approach is a little fast due to wind or a lot of other things.
You racist fucks need to shut up. This is an american airline with white pilots. So stop with the asian mockery. Turns out you are just as prone to error also so shut up and grow up. Where are all the jokes for this? Wheres the mockery of white names? I see why black ppl hate whites so much.
I don't believe shit the CNN or the NTSB has to say.. For fucks sakes you have MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS and that shitty fucking video is the best you can do? Replace those piece of shit half megapixel cams with something worth a shit. Oh but wait if the quality of the picture sucks major dick its easier to Photoshop and lie about it. Fuck bunch of crooks CNN NTSB the NSA CIA and anything government related
I think they're just vogue right now; like, it's possible they happen often -- train derailments, plane crashes, etc. -- but haven't been made so focal before as they are now with this steadily more media oriented world we're living in. It's kind of like the heavily covered court cases that draw national (international, sometimes) attention, but the case in and of itself isn't really unique.
Vitale Family Law offers North Carolinians the opportunity to resolve family law challenges in a personalized, effective manner. No one wants to waste time or energy on futile efforts. Working with experienced attorneys inspires confidence and helps move cases toward resolution. Lawyers at the firm have prepared diligently to meet the needs of clients facing some of life’s most difficult transitions, including divorce and child custody disputes. Schedule an initial consultation to discuss your situation with an experienced, well-recognized Raleigh law firm.